Steve,
Well, it's really up to the rest of the world to acknowledge American property rights. We shouldn't have to pay attention to theirs. Foreign property is just something an American hasn't claimed yet.
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| Wagyu U or No No Kobe http://cookaholics.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2191 |
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| Author: | Tatoosh [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
So, I have been schooled, though honestly, I was quite the willing pupil here. I found an article about the authenticity of Wagyu or Kobe beef outside the bounds of Japan via a thread over at eGullet. The author, a young Mr. Olmstead, holds that Wagyu basially means "cow" in Japan and the term is being bantered about by various beef producers and retailers in the USA and elsewhere for their financial benefit without much regard to any real validity of the beef's origin. I mentioned this to some friends here in the Philippines when I saw Wagyu burgers being offered by the local "high end" Filipino burger shop. They also have a long standing burger labeled "Black Angus". Since there Wagyu burger was going for something on the $6 to $7 scale for 3 or 4 ounce patty, I suggested that the meat involved was very unlikely to have anything more than a nodding acquaintance with with Japanese ancestry other other than the label on wrapper. American beef raisers have apparently formed a Wagyu Association which perplexes Mr. Olmstead to no end. I am not quite so dismayed, though I do agree that cattle they are raising has almost zero relationship to true Kobe beef. They are grabbing a name, some sort of history that traces back across the Pacific Ocean, and then, hopefully, breeding a good a beef cow as possible. I really don't see a problem with trying to raise better beef. The name thing is iffy, but in section 3 of Mr. O's article, he takes the USA to task for it's propensity to utterly ignore appellation d'origine contrôlée (basically refusing to acknowledge Intellectual Property Rights in terms of food since 1891), which is pretty damning. So for the bored or curious, page one of the three articles is here: Wagyu U! |
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| Author: | TheFuzzy [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
Steve, Well, it's really up to the rest of the world to acknowledge American property rights. We shouldn't have to pay attention to theirs. Foreign property is just something an American hasn't claimed yet.
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| Author: | Kathy's Pete [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
If Wagyu is a generic term in Japan, what's the beef again (pun intended or not)? This doesn't sound like a d.a.c violation by itself (but certainly this can be an issue with other products like wine, cheese etc.). I seem to be destined not to read this article, though. Not using IE 9, anyway (keeps crashing the browser)... |
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| Author: | TheFuzzy [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
Kathy's Pete wrote: If Wagyu is a generic term in Japan, what's the beef again (pun intended or not)? Kobe. Which term is also being abused, and is a DAC violation. Quote: I seem to be destined not to read this article, though. Not using IE 9, anyway (keeps crashing the browser)... Works fine in Firefox. |
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| Author: | Kathy's Pete [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
Works in Chrome also. Wow, that guy is seriously bent out of shape over this, isn't he. When I see "Wagyu" I think "Kobe-style" which is one of his suggested alternatives. I haven't seen the term Kobe enough on a menu to give it any thought about its actual origin. I'm calling him on his facts, though. Counterfeit Parmigiano-Reggiano? Oh, you mean parmesan? Fake San Marzano tomatoes? show me. |
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| Author: | Darcie [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
Confession: article TL;DR. But fake San Marzano are probably just some roma hybrid that is shaped like a San Marzano. I have grown what I assume to be "real" San Marzano tomatoes - got the seeds from a very reputable source, as they say - and frankly in the two locales where I grew them (WV & MN), they were just "meh." Guess I don't have the right terroir... To the point of d.a.c. issues - we have those kinds of things in the U.S., of a sort. They include GMO and other patent-protected seeds, and Monsanto/ADM/Cargill take great pains to protect them. Too bad the farmers don't benefit. |
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| Author: | Darcie [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
OK - read the articles. I love it when he blames the government - I'm sure that no American companies have lobbied intensely on behalf of the current laws for not "to actively ignore foreign trademarks and intellectual property claims"...no, I'm sure this is all self-generated from the bureaucrats. Oh, and then there is this: "It is also stunningly hypocritical, and flies directly in the face of the government’s deep pocketed attempts to combat piracy in the arenas of music, film, technology, and software." Yeah, it's the big, bad government. Nope, the music and motion picture industries have nothing whatsoever to do with it. It chaps my hide when government is villainized for regulations that are created through intense lobbying by corporations. The same folks who scream about big government are Johnny-on-the-spot when it comes to protecting their own little fiefdom throught regulations and special legislation. |
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| Author: | Paul Kierstead [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
I don't blame children for wanting candy, but do hold the parents responsible if they give in too much. I totally understand your point, Darcie, but citizens at large don't have a lobby groups and it is very specifically the governments duty to protect those citizens in the face of organized groups. Really, that comes down to the most fundamental duty of the government; protecting its citizens from fraud, etc. and that includes (well for me, but I'll acknowledge some people are more everyman-for-themselves) keeping me from being explicitly mislead by labeling/advertising. Obviously there is a line in the sand there that can be difficult to draw, but it does get drawn. "Well they really bugged me a lot and flew me on trips to discuss it" is not acceptable. That said, the citizens can damn well vote them out and have fallen down in their own duty there. I don't vote for the corporations, but I do vote for the government. OTOH, it is hardly surprising when a country aggressively pursues protection for its own producers but ignores the interests of other countries. That isn't hypocritical, it is self interest and is pretty much what defines "nation". It is difficult when the other countries are smaller and/or less powerful; as a Canadian, we know this well. As one of our Prime Ministers said, "Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt." |
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| Author: | jimbo [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
I think of Kobe in the same manner as Bordeaux wine. A particular style of wine made in a particular way in a particular area. Therefore, although I have seen American Kobe listed on menus, to me that is bogus. On the other hand, Wagyu is a breed, or a group of breeds, and is therefore open market terminology. OHTH, American Kobe is to me fraud. Having said that, ground beef is ground beef, and few, if any could tell the difference on a bun. Like Angus Choice, strictly a marketing ploy. There is very little Kobe imported into the US, but there are some very good interpretations. |
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| Author: | Amy [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wagyu U or No No Kobe |
jimbo wrote: I think of Kobe in the same manner as Bordeaux wine. A particular style of wine made in a particular way in a particular area. Therefore, although I have seen American Kobe listed on menus, to me that is bogus. I agree, although I never disparage a winemaker for saying they make wines in a Bordeaux style. That telegraphs to me the grapes in the wine, and the manner in which they make/age it. So while you cannot in any good conscious say it's a Bordeaux, you at least know (to some extent) what to expect. Amy |
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