Cookaholics Bulletin Board

So, I'm shopping and watching my wallet thin down quickly. My family loves french fries which I bow to occasionally. So we make them at home. And I've been using Canola Oil even though there is some controversy to it. Two liters of canola oil here costs me 513 pesos or about 12 bucks. I noticed Coconut Oil, the refined stuff, on the shelf and two liters only 239 pesos or $5.50.

So I bought some and did some research. It seems that coconut oil got the big thumbs down back 1994. Since then the scientists seem to have backed away from the nefarious claims made about it. And the vegan contingent seems to have embraced it as well. Now we have doctor types pointing at the long lives of pacific islanders who have used it traditionally. And Thomas Keller uses it to make an enhanced version of "Magic Shell" for ice cream. Fudge-ier and richer tasting, was the review I read, which is made using coconut oil. Gee Whiz, how did I get by without this stuff for so long?

Anyone here using it? I expect to try it for deep frying, but also for popping popcorn and maybe even as a partial substitute for butter in pie crusts.

Steve,

Coconut oil is wonderful for popcorn and shrimp. Most of our coconut oil in organic and seems to have short shelf life. I keep it in the fridge and microwave to liquefy.

Tim

I use it. I'm using the unrefined kind, so there is a pretty noticeable coconut flavor - not a good thing or a bad thing, just a thing. It's nice in desserts (as the vegans will tell you) and in foods that already have some coconut flavors. Coconut oil (the refined kind) was long the choice of movie theaters for popcorn. It is very saturated and can therefore stand high temperatures. Back when saturated fats were blamed for every health problem from heart attacks to gall stones, coconut oil came under fire. It didn't help that early studies of coconut oil used hydrogenated coconut oil. New science suggests that while coconut is high in saturated fats, 1.)saturated fats aren't the source of all evil they were once believed to be and, 2.) the saturated fats in coconut oil seem to act in the body more like UN-saturated fats. Coconut oil is high in lauric acid which boosts all cholesterol, but mostly HDL (good) cholesterol. Some are of the opinion that it also boosts the immune system.

I have had very poor results using it in pastry. Lard works best there.

Actually, coconut oil and palm oil got the thumbs down back in the 60's (maybe a little before?), when our government was trying to replace it with crisco, since it was made with vegetables grown in the US. It was supposed to be much better, and coconut oil was supposed to be worse than eating beef fat, since it was more saturated! Later population studies showed that areas where over 50% of their calories were coming from coconut fat, were having no clogged artery and heart disease problems, and according to our government they should have been dropping dead at 50! Later, of course, the truth came out about tri-glycerides, - and the main source of these is hydrogenated vegetable oil.

I use the unrefined, or "virgin" coconut oil, an organic brand, and I have found that it stays good at room temp. for many months (I buy a 54 oz container, and refill the pint container in my kitchen as needed, and it is still good at the very end), while the refined stuff turned rancid after just a couple months. I have tried using it in pastries, but it has a melting point just above room temp., which makes it melt too soon, but if it is cool, like we usually have pastry to work it, it breaks apart when rolled, rather than flowing into a smooth layer, like butter. Maybe beating it together with some butter may work out, but I haven't tried this.

I often use this in Thai dishes, to cook the curry paste, or in some Indian dishes, which have some coconut or coconut milk in the recipes, as it adds more flavor, and what better oil for these? It is probably used in the native lands, but not as much in recipes for here, as it is not as available.

Thanks for the insight and history. The stuff sold here is not refrigerated at all. It comes in a various size pouches and is the "refined" sort though I imagine that with some hunting the unrefined or virgin coconut oil would show up. However, the refined stuff, according to Wikipedia, has a smoke point of 450F while unrefined is 350F. So I will give the refined stuff a try. I hadn't heard about it going bad at room temperature and thanks for letting me know.

I expect, in terms of deep frying, to strain it and reuse it. That should be okay. Use the same visual and olfactory guides to when it is time to throw away? Wish I knew a recycler for this stuff here locally. I harbor a midnight fantasy of owning a bunch of chip shops so I would have all the used oil to convert for my ancient diesel Pajero (aka Montero). However, with Coconut oil going solid at normal temperatures, it might not be the best choice for converting into bio-diesel.

Steve,

Here's and article from the New York Times: LINKY!

Tim

ps: I look ancient! You look attractively pre-geezer.

Thanks Tim, but the link isn't working for me. Is their a title for the article I could hunt for?

So, I was curious to see if there had been any new studies or medical evidence for the heathfulness, or unhealthfulness, of tropical oils in the last decade. Since we know the studies of the 60's and 70's to be flawed, has anyone done any serious new medical studies showing conclusive evidence that palm and coconut oil do, or don't, encourage atherosclerosis and/or heart disease.

In short, the answer is no.

As far as I can find on the intertubes, there have been surprisingly few studies on tropical oils in the 90's or 00's, and most of the studies there have been were narrowly focused, inconclusive, or hopelessly biased. As far as I can tell, nobody really knows at this point whether coconut oil (or palm oil) is bad for heart health, neutral, or even good for it.

Given the saturated vegetable fats, I tend go with most doctors' advice and treat it as if it's more healthful than butter, lard or crisco, but less healthful than olive, sunflower or canola oils. That's pure intuition and "if it tastes good it must be bad for me", though, and not based on strong medical evidence.

Now, intriguingly, there have been some inconclusive studies which seem to show that the method of processing of tropical oils has a strong effect on their healthfulness, with virgin coconut oil possibly being much better for you than heavily processed, and oxidized tropical oils causing much more blood havoc than carefully processed ones (besides tasting bad).

I would not be surprised to see that processed oils are less healthy than the virgin ones, but since I want to use it for deep frying, the difference in smoke point is important to me. I saw some links that discussed the difference between oils and became more technical than me little noggin could easily absorb, discussing the molecular strings of middle length proteins (or summin' like that) and discussing more recent aspects of healthy versus unhealthy cholesterol, noting that even some supposedly unhealthy cholesterol is being reevaluated in terms of the body's requirements.

Now I did find this article form the NY Times (which may be the one Tim was pointing me too): Coconut Oil - From Villain to Health Food

And the Thomas Keller recipe for Chocolate Shell*: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/dinin ... .html?_r=1

*sorry, for some reason I cannot turn the second link into a clickable URL like I did the first one, even though I format them exactly the same. You may have to copy and paste it if you want the very simple recipe directly from NYT - I have pasted the recipe below since I cannot provide an easily accessed link to it:

Chocolate Shell

7 ounces bittersweet chocolate, chopped

2 tablespoons virgin coconut oil.

Melt the chocolate in a small metal bowl set over a pan of simmering water. Stir in the coconut oil and heat until dissolved, about 1 minute. Keep the liquid lukewarm until ready to pour over the ice cream. Chocolate will harden into a shell within a few seconds when spooned over ice cream.

It is from the March 1, 2011 edition, author is Thomas Keller as noted.

P.S. Tim, my photo is from a few years back, I fear that as time passes I am improving my impression of a Shar Pei.

Tatoosh,

I think this quote sums it up:



As I said, at this point nobody knows. Personally, I would love it if coconut oil ... and ideally, coconut milk ... was proved to be not cholesterol-inducing. SE Asian curries, here I come!