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Another chicken technique...kinda fried
http://cookaholics.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1752		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Amy [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
Steve,

Re: oil. Personally, I only use peanut and canola oil for frying. I love peanut oil, but it's really expensive, so I generally only use it for things I'm definitely looking to impart the oil's flavor to, e.g., french fries, chicken, etc. I use canola oil when I want neutrality, e.g., beignets.

I'm going to break down my turkey this year and do it sous vide. Not sure where we're doing T-Day. It's opening day at the resort and I know I'm skiing, but after that it's a crap shoot as to whether I'm hosting or my friend Eileen is, but regardless, I'm making the bird, so having it pre-cooked (with only finishing required) will make life a lot easier for me.

Amy
Author:  Paul Kierstead [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
Like Amy, I typically use Canola oil, which around here is pretty close to the cheapest oil (outside of generic 'vegetable oil') and it is generally neutral. Sometimes I use corn oil, which I don't mind; I don't think it imparts a noticeable flavour, thought it might depend on the brand. I think Canola oil might vary quite a bit by quality; Canada is huge producer of it so I suspect our very pedestrian oil is pretty decent. Both have a high enough smoke point, though Corn has little more margin. Peanut oil here is viciously expensive and only comes in small bottles. We just got a Five Guys and they fry in peanut oil....I'd like to get a piece of their supply! They seem to be importing their own.
Author:  Darcie [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
I have noticed that canola oil frequently has a fishy taste so I've been using a soybean oil blend. Also, my brother grows soybeans so I am obligated to use it. :) (He grows sunflowers too, but sunflower oil is pricey.)

I rarely noticed this fishiness before - maybe I just ran into a bad batch? Anyone else experience this?
Author:  Paul Kierstead [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
According to Cooks Illustrated,

Quote:
When subjected to high temperatures, the unsaturated fatty acids in canola oil break down and take on a subtle fishy taste; in soybean oils the effect is a slightly metallic cast. That said, while some tasters picked up on these off-flavors, these negatives did not markedly affect the oils’ overall rankings.


They imply (they language is unclear) that not all the tested Canola's suffered from this, and that many tasters did not notice/mind it. So it might depend on the source, it might depend on the taster, or it might be the phase of the moon.

I have noted it on occasion, but rarely. As a result, though, I generally use Corn (but going to try Rice Bran) for the frying pan where temps can hit smoking. For deep frying I don't think I've ever got the fishy flavor.
Author:  Amy [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
That's interesting. I've never tasted a fishy flavor, but I am not an supertaster...perhaps Darcie is.

Amy
Author:  Tatoosh [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
I've never approached those sorts of temperatures when deep frying, at least knowingly. My "high" side for deep frying is in the 375F/190C area. I'd be dragging the fire extinguisher in from all over the house and having them aimed at the stove top if I was gonna try hitting 220C over a gas hob. Lack of experience on my part, I guess. I'm off to learn about smoke points and flash points for various cooking oils.

Thanks to Amy and Paul, for the update.
Author:  Da Bull Man [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
wino wrote:
Also, I am really looking forward to playing with my favorite pork rib recipes and this brine.

Could chili be far behind :?: :lol: :shock: 8-)


I see potential in the ribs...keep me posted...it is still grilling / smoking season here! :lol:
Author:  Paul Kierstead [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
Tatoosh wrote:
I've never approached those sorts of temperatures when deep frying, at least knowingly. My "high" side for deep frying is in the 375F/190C area. I'd be dragging the fire extinguisher in from all over the house and having them aimed at the stove top if I was gonna try hitting 220C over a gas hob. Lack of experience on my part, I guess.


In this case it is just a 'finishing' fry. So, you aren't actually cooking the food .... so you fry very short period of time. To get the brown outer crust in such a short period requires high temperatures. It is really quite violent; a fire extinguisher is not such a bad idea :) Most important I think is lots of room in the pot. My dutch oven was only 1/2 full of oil (or less) and I was nervous with two legs/thighs in there; it was reaching to the top (but could have taken another, to be honest). A earlier try with pulled pork overflowed. No fire, fortunately, but I did turn off the gas quickly. . Turns out, small strands of pork contain remarkable amounts of water...

The first time with the chicken legs, I turned off the gas when I added them and then turned it back on when I was happy.
Author:  Amy [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
I agree with Paul about the fry temps when finishing sous vide cooked foods. They need to be high. When I did the buttermilk-brined chicken I only put a couple of inches of oil in my dutch oven and got it scary hot.

Andy has always believed in the "more is more" philosophy when it comes to fire extinguishers, so we've got four in the house, and I know where every single one of them is. And, more importantly, they are up-to-date, and I know how to use them.

Amy
Author:  Tatoosh [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another chicken technique...kinda fried
Wino, I've been doing a bit of research on the brine thing for turkey. I was looking at the local popular soy sauce, since Kikkoman is not available here. The local stuff is Silver Swan (who were in trouble for something soy sauce related at one time). So I stopped by the CI site for their recommendation on brine for a turkey and they were just shy of your 7% brine, providing my math is correct, not something I would back with money, mind you.

So I hunt down our Silver Swan bottle, but it reveal nothing in terms of percentages, but the Silver Swan sold in the USA where they are tad bit stricter on labeling does. The Silver Swan in the USA seems to be 6.9% salt. No where near the 38% that you report the Kikkoman as. But when I look at the ingredients list for Kikkoman it is about 920 mg for a 15ml serving, the Silver Swan is 1020 mg for the same serving. Somewhere one of us messing up, probably me. So here goes...

I am assuming the soy sauce has a weight to volume ratio similar to water. So 15 ml of soy sauce is about 15 grams in weight. I divide the salt wight by the serving weight to get my percentage: Kikkoman 0.92 divided by 15 which is 0.061 or 6.1 percent, while the Silver Swan 1020 mg per 15 ml works out as 0.068 or 6.8 percent salt.

These figures run roughly close to the brine concentration that CI had for their "Roasted Brined Turkey" recipe from Nov 1, 2004: Dissolve 1 cup salt per gallon cold water for 4- to 6-hour brine or 1/2 cup salt per gallon cold water for 12- to 14-hour brine...

So 1 gallon of water equals about 3780 grams and the one cup of salt (varies with type, using table salt here) is reported variously as 250 to 300 grams which gives a 6.6% to 7.9% range.

One of us, probably me, has wandered astray in the math department, I am guessing. I was down eyeballing the Norbest frozen turkeys for Thanksgiving, thinking about your approach. Cheap in the USA and not too bad here, about $2.50 a pound, if I remember right. But I'm afraid that if I dilute the Silver Swan, which looks to be only slightly more salty than Kikkoman's soy sauce, I'll end up with a very low salt content.

Can you show me the error of my ways?

Thanks!
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