Cookaholics Bulletin Board

Well it looks like I'm stuck. The Just Ask guy replied with the following answer, and seemed to know his stuff. Obviously for someone like me who bakes a lot, I should have gone with a different brand. Don't know how I could have figured that out in advance, given the positive reviews (and Bosch has no recovery time specs). But there's no return option, so I'll just have to get used to it. Thanks again for the suggestions (and welcome).

Actually what you're experiencing really is the case, it's just a really bad program logic they have built into the control board. It turns the bake element on and off many times after the unit has preheated. This allows for better overall heating when things are cooked over 30+ minutes, but unfortunately for pastries and other short cooking items, it has the reverse effect. It's really only the case for Bosch, Thermador, and Gaggeneau. All other brands use a different type of logic and haven't adopted this heating type of system.

Emilie,

A defective product is a defective product, even if they designed it defectively. You can still get your money back if you're willing to be aggressive about it.

Write Bosch and the place which sold you the oven. Explain that you're unhappy with the oven and why you're unhappy. Explain that you have plans to post your horrible experiences with your oven on every bulletin board and review site on the internet.

You don't have to be a Bosch doormat. The reason companies don't fix defective-by-design products is that they can count on customers who meekly accept them.

Perhaps my Bosch double wall oven is a different model than yours ( it is 10 years old).
I have baked a great deal using these ovens and have turned out beautiful products. I have never checked oven recovery time.
So sorry you are having a problem, I love my ovens.
Ilene

Thanks for the sympathy, Ilene, and for the advice, Fuzzy. You're right -- I need to try and rattle some cages about it and see what happens. I did the same with KitchenAid a while back over them jerking me around re: an extended warranty, and actually won. But I imagine a $2,000 oven will require more persistence than a $70 warranty. And I haven't read great things about Bosch as far as their responsiveness to unhappy customers (although to be fair, they were very accommodating when I phoned them about needing a warranty service call.)

Thanks again!

Emilie

Emile, you are way more forgiving than I. I would be all over this. I would not back down until I got a refund or a satisfactory replacement. Be aggressive and don't let them off the hook, 2K is a lot of money. I find it hard to believe there is no return policy. Go after the store and Bosch. Be relentless if nessesary. This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off!


L

You need to call someone who can actually help you, not some poor schmuck who gets $7.40/hour to keep to a script. According to the Consumerist, this is how you find Executive Customer Service for a company.

"1. Enter the company name in Google Finance.
2. Get their headquarters phone number from the "address" area.
3. Pick a person from the officers and directors list. CEO usually works.
4. Call the HQ.
5. Get to the operator and ask in a calm professional voice to be transferred to the office of the person from step 3.
6. Whoever picks up, voice your complaint to them in a concise and polite manner.
7. You have now likely entered executive customer service Valhalla.

Note: It is perfectly okay and great to reach a secretary. They will make it happen for you.

Executive customer service is a person or team attached to the executive offices of most major companies that, unlike some call center jockeys reading off binders, have the ability to solve nearly any problem. If the binder boys aren't doing it for you, it might be time to give executive customer service a try."

Like it says, you need to be polite, clear, and concise. You also need to tell them what they need to do to make it right. Do you want them to take the product back and give you a full refund? Do you want them to exchange it for another model that doesn't have this issue?

Some people have gotten satisfaction by Twittering about their dissatisfaction. Lots of companies have a person whose job it is to check Twitter for #s.

I'm sorry I haven't reported back to you guys about my oven issues after you were so kind to give me support/suggestions several months ago. I had login problems a couple of times (clueless user issues, not the system) when I attempted to and kept thinking I'd come back to it. Obviously that's taken me longer than it should have!

Based on Ilene's experience with her Bosch ovens, I decided that it would make sense to stop using the thermometer to monitor the oven temps and just see if I became acclimated to the baking times in general. I figured if it was still driving me crazy in a month or two, then I'd start the battle with Bosch. And I have to say, I've basically gotten used to them. I always start checking the ovens at the recommended time, and they usually need a few more minutes, although not always. But it's not really a problem now. So all in all, I have to say the recovery frustration was partially a function of the fact that they just don't cook quite as fast as I was used to, but also because I was monitoring them so closely with a really accurate temperature device, and unless one can afford a Wolf or Viking, etc., you're just not going to get super precision accuracy.

The one thing that still drives me crazy, though, are the oven lights. Believe it or not, they are designed to actually turn off automatically every time you open the oven. So when I'm baking anything like cookies or multiple sheets of hors d’oeuvres that requires turning/moving pans, I end up pushing the "light" button on the control panel, often after having to push the "lower" or "upper" button first, literally 20 or 30 times! Maybe it's designed that way in the pursuit of some sort of environmental savings as far as power, but it is insane! (I talked to a Bosch service tech about it, who confirmed with the company that there's no way around it.)

So I guess it's kind of a draw. I've become satisfied with the heating, especially given the fact that they are significantly less expensive than most other comparable models, and even though the lights drive me nuts, it's not the same kind of frustration as far as feeling like I paid a ton of money for the appliance and it is not performing as it should. I've thought about making an issue with them because of the insane light design, but even if they miraculously agreed to take them back, it would end up costing me a good bit of money to get a different model and deal with the installation, etc., and I guess it just doesn't bother me quite enough to start that battle. Although after a lot of Thanksgiving and holiday cooking and baking, I might change my tune.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Emilie

Emilie,

Thanks for making me feel better about my crappy Avanti oven! At least I know I could have paid more to be just as frustrated.

I have a Thermador oven that apparently does the same thing (although the temp drop is not as dramatic). It did annoy me when I first learned this, but bottom line the final product coming out of the oven was great so I stopped obsessing over it.

The light that goes out everytime you open the oven, though? That's crazy and would bug the hell out of me.

Amended into oblivion when I saw I missed a page of posts somehow. Whoops. Sorry!