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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 121
Slashing does three things.
What Amy says.
It allows the loaf to expand in a more controlled manner.
For asthetics.

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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:27 am 
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Posts: 90
Last night I ruined my French Bread it isn't the first time you think I would learn. The timer and the oven are reset by the same button but you can also reset the timer with another button which I found out last night. All my efforts to reclaim the loaf were all for not.

I am going to try to not let that happen again. So I am going to use Amy's method. I have it all set up with the pizza stone up higher with a pot that I will put ice cubes in, it seems like it should work great.

The French Bread is so easy to make and it is Barbara's favorite, I make all kinds of exotic breads and this is the one she likes most.

Makes two loafs,

4 cups of shifted Bread Flour
1 Tbs salt
1 tbs yeast

Mix dry ingredients
Set up the yeast in warm water, only takes a few minutes.
mix in enough warm water until the flour comes off the sides of the bowl
Knead a little not a whole lot should all come together
Let rise in covered bowl for two hours

Make two loafs on a spray cookie sheet, cover and let rise a second time 1 1/2 hours
Bake for 35 minutes at 350 degrees
Use one of the moisture methods in the oven, drop water on to a cookie sheet at the bottom or Amy's method of a pot with ice cubes. The ice cubes seems like it last to whole cooking time.

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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Amy, you seem to be a professional at making bread. That Ciabatta that you make, do you do the 18 hour rise or is there an easier way. I like it and I get some good reviews but it takes two days to make it with the long rise time.

Barry

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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:37 pm
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Location: Telluride, CO
Barry,

I'm a chef. I work at one of the top fine-dining restaurants in Telluride. and we make all of our own bread, so I make between 16-20 loaves of ciabatta each day.

I'm not sure which recipe you're referring to. The ciabatta I make uses a biga as a starter and sits overnight. I then mix, scale and bake-off my bread the next morning.

Craig Ponsford has a wonderful ciabatta recipe. You'll find it if you google it.

Amy


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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:09 pm 
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I suspected so, but where is Telluride? Ah I see Colorado, a long way from Maine. I did learn one things you spell loaves, I didn't have that right. The French bread came out good, I never make large quantities of anything, the two of us really eat nothing, it is comical how little we eat and yet we both love to cook, go figure. My Grandson went to a special high school that offered a chef training course as well as how to run a restaurant and hotels and I guess a bunch of other things. I don't know how hard he looked but he has been out of school 2 years and he hasn't been able to get a job in the Worcester MA area. I told him take anything even wash dishes and when an opportunity opens up and your a good worker they might give you a try, you know how kids are today, if they can't start at the top they are not interested. In our area there are tons of good culinary jobs, but I doubt it would make a difference. I find fault with the school they filled his head with a good chef makes 400K a year, not sure what planet that is so I guess $9 an hour doesn't seem so terrific, but that misses the point there is no such thing as bad job if it is good honest work and someone will always notice if you do a good job.

Thanks,
Barry

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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:34 am 
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Chef Amy,
I feel like I've just struck GOLD.
Not Craig Ponsford's ciabatta, but YOU.
Man, I have SO MANY QUESTIONS.

I'll limit them (for now) to your recommended recipe, the biga based ciabatta.
My understanding of a biga is kind of a wild yeast starter, not too different from sour dough.
With that, it's kind of like a sponge, or a pre-dough except it will be a hybrid with another.
(I'm making up my explanation as I go because I don't know the proper terminology).
The extended rise time is similar to my sour dough -- it's not a very aggressive yeast but it's tends to yield strong flavors due to the fermentation (again, a hybrid series of reactions).

Okay, many hours later we incorporate it into a slightly more traditional dough and continue. One observation by me is the higher level of wetness. In my mind it promotes fermentation. It also removes and stores aqueous solution of acidic by-products without killing the parent yeast(s), and hence more flavor.

The wetness and multiple folds every 20 minutes contributes to complex gluten formation. The HOT oven temp along with the wetness and extra gluten helps to create the dough caverns or air-holes which is characteristic of the bread.

One of my books has a troubleshooting section for breads. It says if you have big openings from bubbles (air pockets) it's because the bread was allowed to rise for too long a period. In this case that's exactly what we want. What's a little strange is the final rise time seems reasonable and wouldn't have cause for such big cavities. Why?

Just trying to get the philosophy straight in my mind as to what is going on.

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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:37 pm
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Location: Telluride, CO
OldRelayer wrote:
I told him take anything even wash dishes and when an opportunity opens up and your a good worker they might give you a try...

Excellent advice Barry. Tell him he should research how many of the world's greatest chefs got their start. A significant number started as dishwashers simply to get their foot in the door.

The beauty of being a dishwasher is that you can concentrate very little on the task at hand (after all, it's pretty mindless work), so you can just LISTEN to what's happening in the kitchen, especially when the Chef is talking through problems/opportunities in terms of a dish. I've learned a great deal that way, even though I've never been a dishwasher...except maybe at home. :)

Amy


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 Post subject: Re: Olive loaf
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:07 am 
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Location: Telluride, CO
John,

Thanks, but there are a number of professionals (both current and former), and a number of talented artisan bakers on this board who are equally qualified to answer questions like this.

To address some of your questions/points…

A biga is not dependent on wild yeast. It is simply a pre-ferment where some of the flour (in the case of ciabatta usually a mixture of bread or AP—depending upon the recipe—whole wheat and rye), some of the yeast and some of the water. They are typically allowed to develop overnight or longer. Sponges frontload all of the yeast and develop in the space of hours. Pre-ferments add both flavor and texture due to a number of enzymatic and acidic reactions that occur.

Ponsford’s ciabatta does ask for a number of folds. The bread I make at work (based upon a different approach—sorry, proprietary info) uses less folds. The key to a really good ciabatta (in my mind) is adequate hydration. Big holes in bread are unwelcome in a sandwich loaf (and yes, that is usually a sign of over-proofing), but in ciabatta are the hallmarks of the bread. And, it’s the high level of hydration that creates those holes. If you understand that a bagel runs at about 50% hydration, but ciabatta runs around 85%, you can see the correlation.

The group of friends on this board have gotten together in the past for weekends of cooking and fun. Each of us do cooking demos and eat the rather tasty results. For our San Antonio weekend about six years ago I did a bread demo. I wrote a bread primer for everyone. If you’d like a copy, just send me a PM with your email and I’ll send it to you. Just realize there are a number of inside jokes you’ll not understand…I was writing for my audience.

Amy


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