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I've been using CI's recipe and it's very tasty...but I can't seem to handle the dough. It just won't stick to itself. I can form bagels if I'm tricksy, but they are ugly. Any thoughts?

KSS,

I don't know CI's recipe. I use one from a 1970's Nitty Gritty book.

Do you mean you can't make a nice ring shape? You can also get that by taking a piece of dough, punching your thumb through the center and rolling them out with your hand inside the hole. If your dough is too dry to stick, add less flour or wet it a bit when shaping the bagel.

Becky,

That's what I've been doing. It's the only way to make a ring with this dough. I tried scaling back on the flour but I guess I scaled back too far -- the bagels weren't as nice and chewy. I'll try something in between this time.

JB,

Since it's hard for me to believe that anyone at CI actually knows how to make a proper bagel, let me give you the recipe I've used to make more than 8 dozen bagels:

1 cup 2 Tbs Water
1 Tbs vegetable oil
2 Tbs malt syrup (subs. sugar)
1 tsp salt
3 1/3 cups bread flour
2 tsp active dry yeast

1 egg yolk beaten with 2 Tbs water
Toppings: poppy seeds, sesame seeds, garlic, etc.

Warm water to 100F. Mix with yeast and half the malt (or sugar). Let stand for 5 minutes. Mix the dry ingredients in a large bowl and then combine with the liquids.

Knead for 15 minutes (yes, really), until very elastic. Shape into a large ball, coat with the vegetable oil, cover and leave to rise for 1 hour in a warm place.

Cover a baking sheet with baker's parchment and lightly grease it (oil spray works here). Knead the dough lightly for a couple minutes. Cut off small balls of dough and shape the bagels. (There are several techniques for shaping, which I'm not going into here, and you'd really need to see pictures or a video anyway).

Place the bagels on the baking sheet, widely spaced. Cover them loosely for a second rise, around 30 minutes. Alternately, you can put the bagels in the fridge for an overnight rise and bake them off in the morning.

Fill a large wide pot (at least 5qt) with water, adding a little (2-3Tbs) of sugar. Bring to a low boil. Heat the oven to 400F.

Drop the bagels into the water to boil them, a few at a time ... don't crowd. Simmer them 30-60 seconds on one side, flip, and then on the other side. Drain each bagel with a slotted spatual and return them to the baking sheet.

Glaze the bagels with the egg wash and add the toppings. I find it works better to press the bagels into a plate of seeds or garlic than to sprinkle it on.

Bake at 400F for 20 to 25 minutes, until golden brown. Serve while still warm.

Note: the amount of water above is for a moist climate. If you live somewhere dry, you may need to increase the amount of water by 1/4 to 1/2 cup.

I really like Reinhart's recipe. I take the ball of dough, poke a hole in it with my thumb, and spin it around 2 fingers to enlarge the hole. Then I gently stretch any thick spots. It isn't perfect but seems to do OK. Since the hole "shrinks" as the dough rises, I make the holes fairly large - about 1.5 inches.

Here is Reinhart's bagel recipe (adapted slightly). I really think the hi-gluten flour makes all the difference.

Sponge:
1 tsp. instant yeast
18 ounces high gluten flour
20 ounces water, room temp

Dough:
1/2 tsp. instant yeast
17 ounces high gluten flour
2 3/4 teaspoons salt
1 Tbsp. malt syrup

Make sponge and let sit for approx. 2 hours or until very foamy and bubbly. It should
nearly double.

Add additional yeast and stir. Then add 2/3 ofthe flour, the salt and malt. Knead until it
forms a ball, then work in remaining flour to stiffen the dough. It should be very stiff.
Knead by machine for 6 minutes. It should be stiff, not tacky at all but not so dry that it
rips easily. It should be satiny but pliable.

Divide dough into 4.5 ounce pieces. Form into rolls and let rest, covered, for 20 minutes.
Shape bagels and place on two half sheet pans about 2 inches apart. Let rest, covered, for
about 20 minutes or until a bagel passes the float test. Retard in refrigerator overnight (up
to 2 days).

Preheat oven to 500 degrees. Boil water with 1 Tbsp. baking soda. Boil bagels for
approximately 1 minute on each side. Sprinkle cornmeal onto parchment. Place bagels on
pans and sprinkle with desired accompaniments. Bake for 5 minutes then rotate pans.
Bake until golden brown, about 5 more minutes.

Okay, here is CI's recipe. It was by a guest author, btw.

4 cup high-gluten flour
2 teaspoons salt
1 tablespoon barley malt (syrup or powder)
1 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast
1 1/4 cups lukewarm water (80 degrees)
3 tablespoons cornstarch, for dusting baking sheet

1. Mix four, salt, and malt in bowl of standing mixer fitted with dough hook. Add yeast and water; mix at lowest speed until dough looks scrappy, like shreds just beginning to come together, about 4 minutes. Increase to speed 2; continue mixing until dough is cohesive, smooth, and stiff, 8-10 minutes.
2. Turn dough onto work surface; divide into eight portions, about 4 ounces each. Roll pieces into smooth balls and cover with towel or plastic wrap to rest for 5 minutes.
3. Form dough balls into dough rings, place on cornmeal-dusted baking sheet, cover tightly with plastic wrap, and refrigerate overnight (12-18 hours).
4. About 20 minutes before baking, remove dough rings from refrigerator. Adjust oven rack to center position and heat oven to 450 degrees. Fill large soup kettle with 3-inch depth of water; bring to a rapid boil. To test the proofing of the dough rings, fill large bowl with cool water. Drop dough ring into bowl; it should float immediately to the surface (if not, retest every 5 minutes).
5. Working four at a time, drop dough rings into boiling water, stirring and submerging loops with Chinese skimmer or slotted spoon, until very slightly puffed, 30-35 seconds. Remove rings from water; transfer to wire rack, bottom side down, to drain.
6. Transfer boiled rings, rough side down, to parchment paper-lined baking sheet or baking stone. Bake until deep golden brown and crisp, about 14 minutes. Use tongs to transfer to wire rack to cool. Serve warm or at room temperature.


Part of the problem I was having is that this recipe came out in 1997 -- before CI was using weights in their recipes. I had no idea how much flour 4 cups was supposed to be. I started out at 5.5 ounces per cup -- the same weight CI uses for bread flour. I could form rings using the poke-and-spin method, but just barely and there were always cracks where the dough ball hadn't adhered to itself. I thought, "Maybe Todd Butcher uses some other weight per cup." So, I tried 4.25 ounces per cup which seems to be about what the rest of the world uses. These were easier to work with, but the finished product was too soft. On this last batch, I went with a straight-up 5 ounces per cup. The texture was right and these were at least moderately easy to form. The other thing I did was to let the dough rest for about 20 minutes after forming the balls. (Cary really needed to go to bed.) I think the longer rest really helped as well.

I still feel that I should be able to turn out a prettier product. I used to work in a bagel bakery (baking everything but the bagels -- cookies, muffins, etc.) and if 4 stoners can turn out a thousand of these per shift, I think I should be able to make eight without wanting to throw the mixer against a wall. I liked this recipe because it is very similar to the one they used to use at the bagel bakery -- bouncer flour, no additives in the water, overnight retarding. Maybe, it's just that I've gotten to a skill-level where I expect everything to work right on the first try, or at least the second and this is just one of those things that takes more practice.

JB,

Per my recipe above, I often put the bagels to rise overnight ... but they still get a first rising before that. I don't find that a 100% cold rising actually works.

It looks like Darcie's recipe has a longer rest period after the knead, as well. That may be the key. That, and the added practice. I'm sure I'll manage to find some takers for the extra bagels.

Not sure why a cold rise wouldn't work; I keep my fridge cold enough for ice crystals to form in the lettuce, but I raise doughs and batters in there all the time with no problem.

i use the recipe on the King Arthur site. It's good and the dough is easy to handle.

Laurie