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 Post subject: braising question
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:30 am
Posts: 170
So I just made CI's Tuscan Beef Stew today and while the sauce turned out very well, the meat is a bit tough. This has happened before with other braises and it's unclear to me whether I undercooked or overcooked the meat. I'm thinking that tonight's stay in the refrigerator is not going to help the tenderness of the meat very much.

The recipe is from this month's issue of CI. Basically, 2" chunks of boneless short ribs are pan seared (total 8 minutes) and then ultimately, nestled into a chianti and pepper based sauce. It all cooks together in a reasonably low oven (300 degrees) for 2-2.25 hours. The sauce is then reduced, thickened, seasoned and then recombined with the meat, etc. Pretty straightforward.

So I did all that and checked the meat at the end of the 2 and then again 2.25 hrs with my trusty thermapen. Most of the time, the meat was reading something like 205-210 degrees, which I thought was fine since collagen breakdown happens at fairly high temps. My oven tends to be pretty accurate but in all fairness, I haven't calibrated it recently. The short rib meat (4 lbs) was cut from the bones. There was a bit of fat, but nothing excessive.

So, any help on why this meat turned out tasty but tougher than desired would be appreciated.

I guess the other question is what is the strategy for getting meat fork-tender when braising. Once it gets to a certain temperature, say 200 degrees, is that the prime time for it to be tender, and anything past that is overkill?

Or does it need substantial time at that temperature for continued breakdown? I never know when I get it at 190-200 if that's as tender as its going to get, or if keeping it in the oven will make it more tender (or less tender).

If you keep it in the oven, I'm assuming the meat continues to rise in temperature (say going to 225 degrees). Is that true and if so, is that a problem? Is there an optimal temperature for slow collagen breakdown, which when exceeded, results in toughness? Sorry for all the questions but I'm pretty frustrated and not even sure I'm going to serve this tomorrow(!).

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

As always, thanks for your help. Best wishes to everyone (and your families) for a healthy and happy New Year.

Gerard


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 Post subject: Re: braising question
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Finger Lakes Wine Country
Braises are not always predictable, but unless there is a serious problem with the quality or cut of meat, the directive to ... "cook until beef is tender" is usually attainable. So is meat that is cooked to the point that it falls apart in the braising liquid, and both happen at the same temperature since the meat in a braise cannot be at a temperature that exceeds the boiling point of water.

Your meat could probably have used an additional 15-20 minutes to go from "a bit tough" to "tender". Once the meat reaches a "terminal temperature" connective tissue can continue to break down for a couple of hours while the meat goes from tough to tender and then on to to falling apart.

It is important to stay focused on the outcome you want and not on the time it takes to get there. Cooking times are only guidelines.

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 Post subject: Re: braising question
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:50 pm
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I often find with CI and CC's braises and stews that I need to go a bit longer than the recipe calls for, especially on the stove top as opposed to the oven.


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 Post subject: Re: braising question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:51 am
Posts: 663
Location: W. Montana
I have the best luck when braising if I go 'longer and slower'. Instead of 300°, I'd probably set the oven at 275° for a half hour longer than called for in the recipe.
I do that with pot roast, stew and just about everything else.
Other than that, is it possible that the fault lay in the beef itself?


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 Post subject: Re: braising question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:56 am 
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Posts: 170
Great ideas - I'm going to re-make that recipe maybe on Sunday and see what happens!

FWIW - the batch that I did make did not benefit from a night in the refrigerator. The chunks of beef were quite still quite tough. However, when I sliced the meat and heated up the meat with the gravy and noodles, it was actually quite good. Nonetheless, I decided not to serve it to guests!

I'll keep you posted! Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: braising question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:58 am
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Location: Florida Gulf Coast
I too, braise at lowers temperatures and for longer times. I keep an eye on it and make sure the liquid just barely breaks a bubble on the surface and doesn't actually boil. I turn it down if it's boiling or simmering.

Wouldn't the meat tenderize if you put it back in the pot and cooked it longer?

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 Post subject: Re: braising question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:05 pm
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Location: Chico, CA
I recently tested a CI recipe and the braising time was way off again. I did not want to wait, so I put it in the pressure cooker. The ribs were nice and tender. I seldom do long braises on stove top or oven anymore. Mostly I pressure cook it, refrigerate it and defat the next day. Seem to get maximum flavor and tenderness that way.

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 Post subject: Re: braising question
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:51 am
Posts: 663
Location: W. Montana
Alina, good thought. I don't use my pressure cookers enough, I just don't think about it. Will have to be more aware.
However, I do plan to make Hoppin' John this week in the PC. Went shopping before the snowstorm came and picked up the fresh peppers and cilantro I need.


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